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-   -   Insurance for my Landcruiser (https://www.4x4response.info/showthread.php?t=1852)

PFordwe66 18-11-2010 09:21 AM

Insurance for my Landcruiser
 
Hello All,

I have been having trouble getting insurance for my Landcruiser, all of the "major" insurance companies I have spoken to are insisting that I have business insurance with all the extra charges that involves. I asked my current insurance company (RAC) where I should write to get them to countersign the 4x4 response insurance form, they told me that they DO NOT accept mailed correspondence! I currently have been quoted 245.00 but that is just private use and nothing to do with 4x4 Response work. I spoke to Adrian Flux and was quoted over 600.00!
Help!
Cheers,
Paul Ford WE66

Adrian Flux Insurance 18-11-2010 09:23 AM

Hello,

Did you want me to look at the quote you have had with us and check that all details are correct and your membership to this fourm has been added?

If so please PM me your Name and Postcode and Contact Number and the best time to call you

Dan.

Arne Barker 18-11-2010 09:32 AM

Paul - If Dan can't sort you out, try NFU over at Langley Burrell. They serve me well with my 4x4's and gave no probs with signing the 4x4response paperwork.
They even insure me with guns and beaters in David's cattle trailer pulled behind my truck for no extra charge.
Arne

Tony Ferrari 18-11-2010 10:35 AM

Paul

Unfortunately that is the problem with "major" insurance companies, if they don't understand something the standard approach seems to be to offer you a price you are bound to refuse.

Having said that, I have Class 1 business use on my policy as I use my car for work but usually it only costs 5 -10 extra. I am currently with Adrian Flux, which saved me over 100 on my renewal from Aviva and included several things as standard that Aviva wanted to charge extra for.

Earlier this week I was talking to the Civil Contingencies Secretariat regarding insurance and they are talking to the Association of British Insurers (ABI) and agreed to reiterate to them that volunteer use should be regarded as social and domestic use in line with an agreement that has been in place since 1999. Unfortunately ABI members are not obliged to follow this advice as it is only guidance.

PFordwe66 18-11-2010 11:15 AM

Hi Arne - Thanks for that I will give them a try. Cheers Paul.

GrahamPowys 18-11-2010 12:12 PM

I know it doesn't help the OP, but my standard fully comp, social domestic and pleasure policy, with LV=Frizzell actually states I am allowed "volunteer useage" as part of the standard policy.

Dean - Suffolk 27-11-2010 12:34 AM

Mr Flux was more than happy to include voluntary Response work for free. However if I got paid 'mileage' that would work out around 60 quid extra on the annual premium. It worked out cheaper for me to not accept any recompense.

WessexMario 27-11-2010 08:06 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean - Suffolk (Post 18931)
Mr Flux was more than happy to include voluntary Response work for free. However if I got paid 'mileage' that would work out around 60 quid extra on the annual premium. It worked out cheaper for me to not accept any recompense.

This is where you have to be VERY careful of how you express what we to to your insurers.
In Insurance, as in taxation, certain words have specific meanings, the subtlty of difference to other similar words may not be obvious but can impact your premium.

Any use of the word 'PAID' should be avoided, because you are not being 'paid', as in "salary for an employment".
In exactly the same way as 'payment for fuel actually used' when car-sharing to work is not considered taxable income, giving someone a lift in your car voluntarily is not 'carriage for hire or reward', which will incur an additional premium, as long as any consideration you receive does not exceed the actual expenditure incurred to make the journey, and as long as you have the absolute right to refuse to do the journey, or to refuse to allow any individual to enter your vehicle, these being legal tests of whether you are 'in employment' for the purpose of giving someone a lift.

The "giving other people lifts" as part of your 4x4x Response work should be covered by the statutory minimum cover given in all car insurance policies.
In law there is no difference between you giving a district nurse a lift to a patient compared to you giving a member of your family a lift to Sainsburys.
This aspect should require no additional premium and is not a factor as you will be insured to carry however many passengers the vehicle is designed for.

Where there is a difference, is the fact that you will be using your vehicle at a time and in places where motoring organisations and the police may be advising motorists to not do so. That could be considerd by insurance companies as "any other factor to be notified that may impact your risk".
It is this aspect that you may need to notify your insurance company of.

But, consider this...
When you go out on a call, how many other vehicles do you pass?
Have ANY of those other drivers needed to notify their insurance company that they have passengers who might contribute (directly or indirectly) just to fuel used, or that they are driving on open public roads in those adverse conditions?

Is there really any need to specifically mention 4x4 Response?
Are we making a mountain out of a molehill by doing so?

PS. I'm not convinced either way on the 'adverse conditions' aspect, I wouldn't be surprised if any average lawyer or insurance expert couldn't argue the case both ways.

Tony Ferrari 27-11-2010 06:25 PM

You are obliged to notify your insurance company as if you make a claim and they find out you are "responding" they may use it as an excuse to refuse your claim.

I don't know when you contacted Adrian Flux but since our current arrangement started they know exactly what 4x4 Response members are and do.

I do agree that volunteer driving is social and domestic use as long as you are only recompensed for fuel used. This is also reinforced by an agreement made between Local Authorities and Insurers back in 1999, we are currently trying to obtain a copy of this agreement.

Not for profit volunteer driving is generally defined by claiming no more than 40p a mile (the rate set by HMRC). Above this and they consider you are making a profit and therefore ARE being paid. In addition it could be considered that you are operating an unlicensed taxi!

Nationally we have been in discussion with the Civil Contingencies Secretariat who have agreed to talk to the Association of British Insurers (ABI) about this issue, and hopefully reinforcing the 1999 agreement (this time with National Government) although unfortunately the ABI can only advise insurers but they don't have to follow this advice.

Obviously we get a lot of posts of this nature and a common theme is that the cheapest policy won't allow me to do 4x4 response work. I would advise people that the cheapest may not be the best, for that and many other reasons. After all you get what you pay for!

Dean - Suffolk 28-11-2010 12:25 AM

Tony, it was early May when I insured the Disco Commercial. As I say, they were more than happy with the 'response' flag but as soon as I mentioned recompense for fuel (not profit) they wanted the extra. Perhaps Dan could clarify AF's position with regard to this?
We have been quoted a figure of 40p a mile as it happens.


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