Go Back   4x4 Response UK

4x4 Response UK

4x4 Response UK (https://www.4x4response.info/forums.php)
-   Introductions (https://www.4x4response.info/forumdisplay.php?f=33)
-   -   Hi from wet rugby (but not as wet as many other places) (https://www.4x4response.info/showthread.php?t=4859)

Tobydeas 13-02-2014 08:24 AM

Hi from wet rugby (but not as wet as many other places)
 
How do all,

I just wanted to pop in and say hello and hopefully offer my services (nothing sexual though)

I'm a member for west mids 4x4 response as that's my closest group as far as i am aware, but they are still an hour from me, so i am too far away for most of their needs.
So if anyone needs anything rugby/warwickshire/coventry/Leicester way then im more than happy to assist.

I have a 300tdi disco which is fully kitted out, and its only used as a weekend toy.
I do alot of green laning around wales,lakes, yorks etc, so im prety good at organising teams, map reading etc. im also BORDA higher certified.

So if anyone has any used for me just give me a shout!
thanks
Toby

nigel leyland 13-02-2014 09:22 AM

Toby, firstly you need to contact your Rep to have your forum permissions raised to responder status, secondly you need to follow the mutual aid protocols and respond through your own control rather than offer your services ad hoc. Oh, and welcome to the forum ;)

Tobydeas 13-02-2014 09:49 AM

Hi Nigel, thanks for the info :)

My point is i don't think i have a local group?

My most local is west mids 4x4, but they are still too far for me to be much use them.
Unless i can be corrected? it their anyone who covers Warwickshire?

thanks for the welcome :)

LyonJE 13-02-2014 04:23 PM

Hi there, and welcome!!

I'm from Rugby, too -- but I'm with the MROC group (covers Coventry / Solihull / Warks) but no doubt we could ever cross paths :)

Je.


Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobydeas (Post 58781)
How do all,

I just wanted to pop in and say hello and hopefully offer my services (nothing sexual though)

I'm a member for west mids 4x4 response as that's my closest group as far as i am aware, but they are still an hour from me, so i am too far away for most of their needs.
So if anyone needs anything rugby/warwickshire/coventry/Leicester way then im more than happy to assist.

I have a 300tdi disco which is fully kitted out, and its only used as a weekend toy.
I do alot of green laning around wales,lakes, yorks etc, so im prety good at organising teams, map reading etc. im also BORDA higher certified.

So if anyone has any used for me just give me a shout!
thanks
Toby


steve mids 13-02-2014 05:26 PM

toby pm me a number I will give you a ring

Acropolis 13-02-2014 06:01 PM

I spoke to Toby this afternoon and its all sorted. :)

Tobydeas 13-02-2014 08:04 PM

Thanks for all the help gents :) had a good chat with simon earlier and have registered with west mids 4x4 and also with MROC too :)

Acropolis 14-02-2014 06:51 PM

Hi Toby

You can only join one of the groups, especially as we are so close to each other we would both likely look to deploy at the same time.

stokesy1976 14-02-2014 09:39 PM

Don't want to throw the cat among the pigeons. I am also from Rugby and i am a member of the Northants Response Team, i know there are other members from Rugby.
I guess being on the border of a couple of counties there are several choices.

johnkes 15-02-2014 09:22 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Tobydeas (Post 58823)
Thanks for all the help gents :) had a good chat with simon earlier and have registered with west mids 4x4 and also with MROC too :)

Toby
I agree with Simon, it's not ideal to belong to more than one group. You are also bordering Northants and Leics so actually have quite a choice.

John
MROC 4x4R Coordinator

Dean - Suffolk 20-02-2014 12:27 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Acropolis (Post 58971)
Hi Toby

You can only join one of the groups, especially as we are so close to each other we would both likely look to deploy at the same time.

Hah! If only that were the case.
It's this kind if thing that the National body should be there to 'enforce' (if not too strong a word).
Most of the Executive seem to agree that being an 'active member' of only one group is the right way, and yet if it's mentioned there is all sorts of sharp intake of breath and mumblings of "up to the individual team".
Maybe some backbone should be used to sort this out. Some groups are suffering as a result of deliberate 'behind the scenes machinations by others with regard to this subject.

Tiger 20-02-2014 09:27 PM

I'm from Rugby and am also a member of Northants 4x4 Response Team (NH145).

Acropolis 21-02-2014 03:25 PM

Quote:

Originally Posted by Dean - Suffolk (Post 59364)
Hah! If only that were the case.
It's this kind if thing that the National body should be there to 'enforce' (if not too strong a word).
Most of the Executive seem to agree that being an 'active member' of only one group is the right way, and yet if it's mentioned there is all sorts of sharp intake of breath and mumblings of "up to the individual team".
Maybe some backbone should be used to sort this out. Some groups are suffering as a result of deliberate 'behind the scenes machinations by others with regard to this subject.

My view is I don't see how you can be a member of two neighbouring groups as the chances are that both groups are likely to be deployed at the same time, and you obviously cant respond for both groups simultaneously.

UKJeeper 21-02-2014 03:43 PM

Seems to me, Toby, that both groups now know you are trying to join both of them, aren't keen on that idea, and have replied in this thread accordingly.

Looks like you have a choice to make.

nigel leyland 21-02-2014 04:44 PM

As this area of the forum is viewable by all can we please restrict replies to informing the enquirer of there choices and providing contact, debating the pro's and con's of procedures should be reserved for the areas provided. (those concerned may wish to edit their posts)

Tony Ferrari 21-02-2014 05:01 PM

Whilst there are good reasons for only belonging to one group, it is not uncommon for responders to belong to two (or more?), this is largely down to local practice (i.e. some groups insist on sole membership, whereas others have a more flexible policy. 4x4 Response UK do not dictate either way as this is a matter for local determination.

On a call out it should follow that which ever group calls out the responder first has the claim on them. If the second group then calls them out, they can simply respond that they are not available.

The other issue is annual TPL Insurance as both groups could end up paying for the same member! For historical reasons Hertfordshire and Beds & Cambs have traditionally had joint members but the respective reps have just had to confirm the number of joint members each year and the two groups pay for half each.... simples!

Tony (HT01 & BC028)

Tobydeas 22-02-2014 09:16 AM

Thanks for all the replys gents,

Although I don't really understand the reason for being a single member if that's the rules than I shall follow them. I have made a choice and joined the one I fell I would be most useful to.

Be surly it's about being available to help whoever needs it? Just seems a shame that if the other group has a sever issue and needs more responders than they have available then I would be able to assist just because I'm a member of a neighbouring group.
As you said it should work on a first ask first response system then I just wouldn't be available to the second.

But anyways. it's neither here nor there. Not for me to make the decision or step and and insist rules are bent or changed.

I'm just happy to be of assistance when I'm needed :)

Thanks
Toby

LyonJE 22-02-2014 02:22 PM

Re: Multiple Group Membership
 
Hi Toby,

Very similar position here :)

I think the thing about joining only a single group is entirely about the practicality -- so controllers know what's what, avoids complications if multiple calls arrive very close together etc...

I believe that nationally there is some inclination towards interoperability between groups, but each group is different so it's not always trivial for someone trained and set up to work one way, to suddenly leap in with another team -- and that's half the point, that working as a team that develops together is a strength in its own right.

However, any severe or major incident would of course open the possibility of controllers seeking support from other groups -- and we saw it recently when a national call went out for some additional standby cover during the floods -- and indeed when that happened, it was emphasised that no direct offers were sought; that everything should channel via the relevant controllers etc...

So, practical upshot?

Some people agree with two groups that they can belong to both, where it works and suits, but for the most part everyone fixes on just one group in the knowledge that controllers and national coordination efforts can make things happen if severity requires it.

In any case, I always assume/hope that if any neighbouring group had a major incident and wanted extra support then they would surely not hesitate in contacting the controller of the group(s) closest to the location of the incident, so that some coordinated collaborative working was possible. Everyone seems motivated by doing a good professional job of helping when and where required -- I've not heard anyone refusing to cross a border on principle :-)

Je.

Dean - Suffolk 23-02-2014 12:41 AM

Mutual aid is available between all groups at all times. If group 'A' requires two extra responders they call group 'B' who might have the necessary assets. If not, they call group 'C' who might. At no time is there even the remotest need to be a member of more than one group.
I just wish that the National would 'rule/advise' on this once and for all, but it won't while some of the trustee's continue to dual flag as well and they wish to not upset anyone.

Tobydeas 23-02-2014 07:23 AM

Quote:

Originally Posted by LyonJE (Post 59492)
Hi Toby,

Very similar position here :)

I think the thing about joining only a single group is entirely about the practicality -- so controllers know what's what, avoids complications if multiple calls arrive very close together etc...

I believe that nationally there is some inclination towards interoperability between groups, but each group is different so it's not always trivial for someone trained and set up to work one way, to suddenly leap in with another team -- and that's half the point, that working as a team that develops together is a strength in its own right.

However, any severe or major incident would of course open the possibility of controllers seeking support from other groups -- and we saw it recently when a national call went out for some additional standby cover during the floods -- and indeed when that happened, it was emphasised that no direct offers were sought; that everything should channel via the relevant controllers etc...

So, practical upshot?

Some people agree with two groups that they can belong to both, where it works and suits, but for the most part everyone fixes on just one group in the knowledge that controllers and national coordination efforts can make things happen if severity requires it.

In any case, I always assume/hope that if any neighbouring group had a major incident and wanted extra support then they would surely not hesitate in contacting the controller of the group(s) closest to the location of the incident, so that some coordinated collaborative working was possible. Everyone seems motivated by doing a good professional job of helping when and where required -- I've not heard anyone refusing to cross a border on principle :-)

Je.

In all fairness James that's very well written and makes perfect sense.
So from this point of view I can understand the possible complications. Plus as said before not much point in 2 separate groups providing insurance to the same individual!

Sorry if I have created upset within the camp, wasn't my intentions, just wanted clarification as to why I couldn't, or at least for why it wasn't a good idea.

I get it now so I'm looking forward to assisting MROC when needed

dave - Crowborough 23-02-2014 07:45 AM

The UK group can of course advise and I think Tony's post above does that very well. The UK group cannot, however, "rule" since each group is autonymous and arranges things in the way that best suits their own policies and local circumstances.


All times are GMT. The time now is 10:53 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2007, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content copyright 4x4 Response UK. All rights reserved.
Callout phone number: 07005 982 482
Click here to contact the Chairman
Click here to contact the Secretary
» Log in
User Name:

Password:

Not a member yet?
Register Now!
» Sponsors

» Donate to 4x4 Response
» Online Users: 39
1 members and 38 guests
RangeyMark
Most users ever online was 788, 18-11-2019 at 09:35 PM.



All times are GMT. The time now is 10:53 PM.
Powered by vBulletin® Copyright ©2000 - 2016, Jelsoft Enterprises Ltd.
All content copyright 4x4 Response UK. All rights reserved.
Registered Charity 1168451
Design/Hosting: YR 4x4 Response