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  #11  
Old 20-02-2014
Dean Hendricks Dean - Suffolk is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Acropolis View Post
Hi Toby

You can only join one of the groups, especially as we are so close to each other we would both likely look to deploy at the same time.
Hah! If only that were the case.
It's this kind if thing that the National body should be there to 'enforce' (if not too strong a word).
Most of the Executive seem to agree that being an 'active member' of only one group is the right way, and yet if it's mentioned there is all sorts of sharp intake of breath and mumblings of "up to the individual team".
Maybe some backbone should be used to sort this out. Some groups are suffering as a result of deliberate 'behind the scenes machinations by others with regard to this subject.
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  #12  
Old 20-02-2014
Jon Fry Tiger is offline
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Northants 4x4 Response
 
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I'm from Rugby and am also a member of Northants 4x4 Response Team (NH145).
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  #13  
Old 21-02-2014
Simon Brothwood Acropolis is offline
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West Midlands 4x4 Response
 
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Quote:
Originally Posted by Dean - Suffolk View Post
Hah! If only that were the case.
It's this kind if thing that the National body should be there to 'enforce' (if not too strong a word).
Most of the Executive seem to agree that being an 'active member' of only one group is the right way, and yet if it's mentioned there is all sorts of sharp intake of breath and mumblings of "up to the individual team".
Maybe some backbone should be used to sort this out. Some groups are suffering as a result of deliberate 'behind the scenes machinations by others with regard to this subject.
My view is I don't see how you can be a member of two neighbouring groups as the chances are that both groups are likely to be deployed at the same time, and you obviously cant respond for both groups simultaneously.

Last edited by Acropolis; 21-02-2014 at 06:31 PM.
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  #14  
Old 21-02-2014
Tim Cooper UKJeeper is offline
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Essex Rover Rescue
 
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Seems to me, Toby, that both groups now know you are trying to join both of them, aren't keen on that idea, and have replied in this thread accordingly.

Looks like you have a choice to make.
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  #15  
Old 21-02-2014
nigel leyland nigel leyland is offline
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Yorkshire 4x4 Response
 
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As this area of the forum is viewable by all can we please restrict replies to informing the enquirer of there choices and providing contact, debating the pro's and con's of procedures should be reserved for the areas provided. (those concerned may wish to edit their posts)
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  #16  
Old 21-02-2014
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Tony Ferrari Tony Ferrari is offline
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Whilst there are good reasons for only belonging to one group, it is not uncommon for responders to belong to two (or more?), this is largely down to local practice (i.e. some groups insist on sole membership, whereas others have a more flexible policy. 4x4 Response UK do not dictate either way as this is a matter for local determination.

On a call out it should follow that which ever group calls out the responder first has the claim on them. If the second group then calls them out, they can simply respond that they are not available.

The other issue is annual TPL Insurance as both groups could end up paying for the same member! For historical reasons Hertfordshire and Beds & Cambs have traditionally had joint members but the respective reps have just had to confirm the number of joint members each year and the two groups pay for half each.... simples!

Tony (HT01 & BC028)
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  #17  
Old 22-02-2014
Toby Deas Tobydeas is offline
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Thanks for all the replys gents,

Although I don't really understand the reason for being a single member if that's the rules than I shall follow them. I have made a choice and joined the one I fell I would be most useful to.

Be surly it's about being available to help whoever needs it? Just seems a shame that if the other group has a sever issue and needs more responders than they have available then I would be able to assist just because I'm a member of a neighbouring group.
As you said it should work on a first ask first response system then I just wouldn't be available to the second.

But anyways. it's neither here nor there. Not for me to make the decision or step and and insist rules are bent or changed.

I'm just happy to be of assistance when I'm needed

Thanks
Toby
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  #18  
Old 22-02-2014
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James E Lyon LyonJE is offline
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MROC 4x4 Response
 
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Thumbs up Re: Multiple Group Membership

Hi Toby,

Very similar position here

I think the thing about joining only a single group is entirely about the practicality -- so controllers know what's what, avoids complications if multiple calls arrive very close together etc...

I believe that nationally there is some inclination towards interoperability between groups, but each group is different so it's not always trivial for someone trained and set up to work one way, to suddenly leap in with another team -- and that's half the point, that working as a team that develops together is a strength in its own right.

However, any severe or major incident would of course open the possibility of controllers seeking support from other groups -- and we saw it recently when a national call went out for some additional standby cover during the floods -- and indeed when that happened, it was emphasised that no direct offers were sought; that everything should channel via the relevant controllers etc...

So, practical upshot?

Some people agree with two groups that they can belong to both, where it works and suits, but for the most part everyone fixes on just one group in the knowledge that controllers and national coordination efforts can make things happen if severity requires it.

In any case, I always assume/hope that if any neighbouring group had a major incident and wanted extra support then they would surely not hesitate in contacting the controller of the group(s) closest to the location of the incident, so that some coordinated collaborative working was possible. Everyone seems motivated by doing a good professional job of helping when and where required -- I've not heard anyone refusing to cross a border on principle :-)

Je.
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  #19  
Old 23-02-2014
Dean Hendricks Dean - Suffolk is offline
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Mutual aid is available between all groups at all times. If group 'A' requires two extra responders they call group 'B' who might have the necessary assets. If not, they call group 'C' who might. At no time is there even the remotest need to be a member of more than one group.
I just wish that the National would 'rule/advise' on this once and for all, but it won't while some of the trustee's continue to dual flag as well and they wish to not upset anyone.
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  #20  
Old 23-02-2014
Toby Deas Tobydeas is offline
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Quote:
Originally Posted by LyonJE View Post
Hi Toby,

Very similar position here

I think the thing about joining only a single group is entirely about the practicality -- so controllers know what's what, avoids complications if multiple calls arrive very close together etc...

I believe that nationally there is some inclination towards interoperability between groups, but each group is different so it's not always trivial for someone trained and set up to work one way, to suddenly leap in with another team -- and that's half the point, that working as a team that develops together is a strength in its own right.

However, any severe or major incident would of course open the possibility of controllers seeking support from other groups -- and we saw it recently when a national call went out for some additional standby cover during the floods -- and indeed when that happened, it was emphasised that no direct offers were sought; that everything should channel via the relevant controllers etc...

So, practical upshot?

Some people agree with two groups that they can belong to both, where it works and suits, but for the most part everyone fixes on just one group in the knowledge that controllers and national coordination efforts can make things happen if severity requires it.

In any case, I always assume/hope that if any neighbouring group had a major incident and wanted extra support then they would surely not hesitate in contacting the controller of the group(s) closest to the location of the incident, so that some coordinated collaborative working was possible. Everyone seems motivated by doing a good professional job of helping when and where required -- I've not heard anyone refusing to cross a border on principle :-)

Je.
In all fairness James that's very well written and makes perfect sense.
So from this point of view I can understand the possible complications. Plus as said before not much point in 2 separate groups providing insurance to the same individual!

Sorry if I have created upset within the camp, wasn't my intentions, just wanted clarification as to why I couldn't, or at least for why it wasn't a good idea.

I get it now so I'm looking forward to assisting MROC when needed
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