Membership of more than one team

[Bob Hatcher]

It is entirely up to each team to set their own Membership criterion.



However the Trustees were asked whether individuals could join more than one team. we have discussed it amongst the five of us and offer the following guidance.





It is the view of the trustees that membership of any 4x4 Response team which is itself a member of the National Network has certain transferrable benefits (and responsibilities).



We would anticipate that all teams would have a policy of offering mutual aid and general co-operation to any other team both across border and also more widely across the country should the need arise. Remembering that the insurance is under a national policy and applies no matter where a member operates. We would also expect a team to call for mutual aid whenever appropriate i.e. call the nearest units regardless of team borders.



We would hope that this “mutual aid” would also extend to training; social; publicity events or any other event which a member may wish to attend or where a team may like to show that the organisation is national such as 4x4 shows, emergency services shows and the like.



From time to time a member may find himself spending a prolonged period in another team's area perhaps due to work commitments etc. at such times a “temporary transfer” may be in order, at other times a more permanent transfer may be in order with the mutual agreement of both teams



Therefore the trustees cannot currently envisage a reason why a member should join more than one team.



This ensures that the member does not pay two lots of membership, and that the national network has an accurate count of members and in the event of a major incident (flooding on a national scale, pandemic flu etc.) can therefore give a true representation of the resources that we can offer.



It is recognised that from time to time members may feel that they are gaining an unfair advantage from not being a member of a neighbouring team. In such cases it may be appropriate to offer a donation towards the host team's funds. This however would be considered a discretionary donation and should not be expected or a value set.

[Dean Hendricks]

If only it were that simple, Bob

[Carl Robinson]

such a shame that members of Suffolk Rover Rescue are having to pay to join N&S as a support member to help at their events when the national are asking that

We would hope that this “mutual aid” would also extend to training; social; publicity events or any other event which a member may wish to attend or where a team may like to show that the organisation is national such as 4x4 shows, emergency services shows and the like.

but hey ho thats the way it goes

[Jim Whiteside]

Carl,

NS4x4R I believe have made every effort to support the sentiment expressed by Bob, but offers of meetings of controllers, joint exercises and training etc seem to have been ignored by SRR.

I can't comment on the exact circumstances you describe becsuse I don't have all the facts but I am aware if no contact along the lines of 'can I come as a member of SRR' or any assertion by us that individual SRR members ''have to pay to join to help at a NS4xR event'. I assume it was the choice of the person concerned to join us.

That you feel the need to air your grievance in public without having contacted me or any other members of the NS4X4R committee first is akso 'interesting'.

[Roger Berwick]

Originally Posted by jaydublu

Carl,

NS4x4R I believe have made every effort to support the sentiment expressed by Bob, but offers of meetings of controllers, joint exercises and training etc seem to have been ignored by SRR.

I can't comment on the exact circumstances you describe becsuse I don't have all the facts but I am aware if no contact along the lines of 'can I come as a member of SRR' or any assertion by us that individual SRR members ''have to pay to join to help at a NS4xR event'. I assume it was the choice of the person concerned to join us.

That you feel the need to air your grievance in public without having contacted me or any other members of the NS4X4R committee first is akso 'interesting'.

Well said Jim

[Carl Robinson]

jim, i will send you an email tonight re this subject,

[Richard Jewell]

Originally Posted by BobWessex

Therefore the trustees cannot currently envisage a reason why a member should join more than one team.

I can help the trustees out on that point.

I'm a member of two SAR teams. There's my home team, of which i am a full member and do most of my call puts.

Then there's the second team of which I am an associate member. This came about because I have family on their patch and spend a lot of time there. I noticed from Twitter that while is a in their patch there were jobs I could have helped with, including one less than a mile from where I was. I contacted their chairman and became an Associate Member. I don't train with them, don't do fundraising with them, and its up to me to make sure all my training and certification are kept up to date with my home team but I'm on their call out list and can and do attend their occasional job on their patch. The only concession from me is that I pay £20 annually to go on their insurance.

It works very well and is refreshingly easy in practice...IF people actually want to make it work. After all, if there's a major incident while I'm over there it would be wasteful and petty not to let me assist just because of politics and squabbling.

So now you know - other volunteer responder organisations do it, and do it well. All it takes is a willingness to make it happen.

The Police do it (off duty officers regularly make arrests on someone elses turf, done it myself on a few occasions over the years). In extreme weather or national emergency the Police report to their nearest station, regardless of which Force they work for or where their home station may be. So do Ambo (ditto - they're not going to let someone die just because they're on someone elses patch enjoying an ice cream), and so do SAR. The end-game is assisting the public, and anything that gets in the way of that goal should be dismissed, overcome or eliminated.

[james chalkley]

Originally Posted by Chopper

I can help the trustees out on that point.

I'm a member of two SAR teams. There's my home team, of which i am a full member and do most of my call puts.

Then there's the second team of which I am an associate member. This came about because I have family on their patch and spend a lot of time there. I noticed from Twitter that while is a in their patch there were jobs I could have helped with, including one less than a mile from where I was. I contacted their chairman and became an Associate Member. I don't train with them, don't do fundraising with them, and its up to me to make sure all my training and certification are kept up to date with my home team but I'm on their call out list and can and do attend their occasional job on their patch. The only concession from me is that I pay £20 annually to go on their insurance.

It works very well and is refreshingly easy in practice...IF people actually want to make it work. After all, if there's a major incident while I'm over there it would be wasteful and petty not to let me assist just because of politics and squabbling.

So now you know - other volunteer responder organisations do it, and do it well. All it takes is a willingness to make it happen.

The Police do it (off duty officers regularly make arrests on someone elses turf, done it myself on a few occasions over the years). In extreme weather or national emergency the Police report to their nearest station, regardless of which Force they work for or where their home station may be. So do Ambo (ditto - they're not going to let someone die just because they're on someone elses patch enjoying an ice cream), and so do SAR. The end-game is assisting the public, and anything that gets in the way of that goal should be dismissed, overcome or eliminated.

Richard

That's all very sensible stuff and works because ALSAR have a set level of training and accreditations across the board however because our organisation has grown organically with out central direction or administration each team operates in very different ways. I have noticed this on several instances when we have worked with other 4x4r groups and its unfortunately not just the little things!

There is no way of knowing that a responder from (for the sake of argument) kent will have the same skills, levels of training, competences or equipment carried as a responder from Carlisle and here lies the problem.

We train regularly with our local SAR group and have tried to emulate some of the key skills and practices, infact all of our police vetted members have the opportunity to go through a search tec's course with KSAR .. this gives the team the edge when responding to a SAR callout as they know exactly whats expected of them.

I would have no issue welcoming members of other groups if I knew they had been trained and operated to the same standard as my team, thats not to say I think my team is superior to any other, it is purely because as a trustee and officer of the group I have the confidence in my guys and their training to know that if anything untoward should happen I can back them 100% knowing they have followed the training as set out in the members manual and followed correct procedure.

unfortunately its about mitigating risk and liability for me, my members and my user agencies.

[Ross Pilgrim]

Hi Bob,

completely hit the nail on the head with the insurance as a national cover but there is a great deal of people I have met over my time with 4x4R that have joined 2 or more groups for the reasons of different call outs and assistance across events.

I for one am a member of both Hertfordshire and Beds and Cambs. Paid both memberships fees live in Herts but mostly support beds and cambs wth events.

following that there is a good few members across these clubs that are members of both personally I think they should be back as one club as a few years ago but that's my opinion!

I'm still happy to pay to join both as that funding helps out both clubs but I guess others might not in future. only time will tell I guess!

Ross

[gerry holford]

I personally don't see a need for membership of more than one team. As a member of an affiliated team I am insured to carry out response activities, wherever that may be, through my national affiliation. If I wish to volunteer my time, equipment & expertise to a team I'm is not a member of there should be no reason why not, provided all the teams concerned are made aware, agree & that there should be no conflict of interest.
We in the Highlands rarely get called out. If I were to make myself available to Lothian, on an as required basis, as long as they accept my qualifications & presence in their team, I am not required by my parent team & all conditions are met, where is the problem?

As an after thought, technically, we are all part of the same team once we join 4X4 Response.